Photograph by Nine Köpfer.


Bartgrinn's words are written this way.

Shada and Nerida's words are written like this.

Shada: Is there anything we can do to support the development of the consciousness of the people? To help them do what you said before: to make them more conscious and learn and see that we have to protect the Earth, this little planet?

The thing is, you can give ideas. You can try to make them think. You can’t force them into something.

It’s like if you provoke the ones at church on Sunday: they’re gonna fight you because they think it’s their freedom to decide what they’re gonna learn, and that it’s their right to protect what they wanna protect. Or not to protect anything at all.

It needs to grow in their minds. They need to change the way they think. Forcing someone into this has never worked.

They need to understand. They need to have a different approach, a different attitude. And they need to learn again to listen and to see. I’m not talking about bad eyes.

Or deaf people—they are probably better at hearing things than everybody else.


So, give them, bit by bit, little things that make them think, ‘Oh, I never thought it through.’

This is a great achievement because this person will tell those ideas, in her own words, to someone else. And then someone else hears it in a slightly different way that makes it possible for them to understand. Some things are on different levels of understanding.

There are different levels of understanding. Photo by  _HealthyMond .

There are different levels of understanding. Photo by _HealthyMond .

You need the people that are going to read this material, at some stage, to spread the word, but in their own words.

It’s not like you have ten commandments and this is how you live and this is what you do.

Nerida: Thank god. [They laugh].

Stupid. So it’s not like this.

It’s like, ‘Oh yeah, I never thought of that.’ ‘This is the different approach.’

And they will understand it—part of it. They get some insight. And then they tell it, in their own words, that will reach other people—the ones that would not get it from reading that sentence.

It’s gonna spread by itself, through other people, using different words that would make it more understandable for different groups of people. Because it’s an idea that needs to grow in their head, that makes this understanding possible, or that insight.

Everybody reacts to these things, or learns from these things, in a different way and needs different words for it, to understand it. This is how it’s gonna work, spreading it.

That’s why we all say it needs to be out there.


We don’t wanna say that it’s like, as I said before, the ten commandments. ‘And this is how it’s done.’ Because everybody would say, ‘These stupid things. Who needs that?’

It’s their choice. They’re not forced to do anything. This is not like, ‘This is the rule. This is how it works’. Because it’s going to work differently for everybody.

We are not a religion. We are talking from experience.

N: And that’s why everybody can relate to it in one way or another.

Yes, on different levels.

And there will be people that say, ‘This is a bad story. I don’t like that... But I do like that little part here’. So, everybody can get something out of it. It’s their own choice.

The moment you tell someone, ‘This is how it is. You have to believe, like I’m telling you,’ you do not help them understand. It provokes them.

And they will say, ‘Okay. Not for me.’ Without trying to read, to understand, to think differently. You will not get people voluntarily to think about things if you force them to do something.

It has never worked.

N: Good. It’s not what we’re interested in.

I’m glad to hear that.

N: We don’t have the capacity to force anyone to do anything, anyway.

There are lots of people who don’t have the capacity…and they still do it.

N: [Laughs a little] That’s true.


Now, Shada here is a woman who works with herbs and plants.

I’m glad to hear it.

N: She’s got a great way of listening to the plants. She responds by making tinctures and teas and infusions.

We think it’s more looking at them than listening to them.

That’s how it feels to us, observations.

S: Just started.

You would need someone to work with, who has knowledge of other things on different levels. So you could put your knowledge together and expand it.

Then you would have a more complete picture at the end of it. You are very good at observing things and looking at things and then using intuition.

You need the one that can listen, sense things by touching them, feeling them. You are more the visual person and then you get the intuition from it, which is great.

S: Thank you.

There will be someone around.

'With a very sensitive touch' Photo by  Rémi Walle .

'With a very sensitive touch' Photo by Rémi Walle.


Someone, same age as you, probably a little bit younger—I’m sorry to say.

S: That’s okay.

N: [Laughing] Oh, means it’s not me.

It is not you, my friend.

N: I have other things to do, I know.


Male or female?

Female. More likely to be female. With aah, a very sensitive touch. It’s the sensitivity and the touch. It’s not a gender thing. The energy is more female than male. But it could be anyone, my friend. You should know that.

S: I started a new job a few weeks ago.

Was it a good idea to do this work or should I look for this person and take steps to go into the herbal work?

You can do your studies by yourself, a bit. I would think that doing the work you do, you might be able to find that person more easily.

S: Okay.

Area is good for that, but don’t look too close. Too close means next door.


A little bit further south.

Yes, south.

S: Thank you very much. That was a great help.

We like to help. That’s why we’re here.

N: Shada’s made something of dandelion flowers. A bright yellow oil.

You could smoke it.

N: Really?

You can put drops of it on other herbs and smoke it.

N: What would be the benefit of that?

Makes you happy.

They laugh heartily.

N: Well, that’s a great discovery. Well done, Shada. She said they made her happy, the bright, yellow flowers. Didn’t you?

S: I’ve said it.

But it’s not an oil, it’s a tincture.

So, you have to be careful with fire.

S: Yeah, that’s it.

But you could soak some herbs in it. This alcoholic part will get out in the air, after a while. And then you could smoke it.

S: Wow.

N: Lovely.

They laugh.

That sounds like a treat. We’ll have to get you a nice pipe.

[To Bartgrinn] She hasn’t been smoking. You know she was smoking that terrible stuff that they get people addicted to. And she stopped that.


S: After nearly forty years of smoking that stuff. But I’m still craving—

A wise decision.

N: Very wise. She’s bought herself some time, I would say.

Quite a bit.

N: [Softly] Good.

So, genuine tobacco, including soaked in dandelion tinctures, for an occasional indulgence—is it going to hurt her, to do that?

I would wait a bit.

S: Mhmm.

N: Until it’s not so strong, the craving?

You can study by yourself a bit. Photo by  rawpixel .

You can study by yourself a bit. Photo by rawpixel.


We are not that good with time but we would suggest waiting until you feel you can control it. You have been in a habit for a very long time. It’s not the addiction to the things you put into your body that makes it dangerous to do it now. It’s the habit.

You were used to this smoking thing, thinking, ‘I don’t know what to do with my hands,’ and ‘I don’t know what I should do right now. Oh, I could smoke something.’ This kind of habit.

You need to have time, make a special time for it. And then, you need to enjoy it.

You’re still at a point where it might be like, ‘I’ll just do it again. And again. And again.’
We could sense you’re not strong enough at the moment, to say, ‘I’ll have one a month.’

S: Yes, that’s the reason why.

N: It’s something to work towards.


N: And it’s about fear, also, surely—

No, it’s the habit. There is no fear. It’s the habit of being used to something.

If you do something for a very long time, the biggest problem is to get rid of the habit. The addiction to the stuff itself disappears quite quickly.

It’s the brain, ‘Oh, I wish I could do this now. My hands are empty. Oh, I feel like I’m just sitting here doing nothing. I could do something—‘

S: [Laughs]

—yeah, you could read about herbs. Instead of smoking them.

S: You’re right.

At the moment.

S: Very good, thank you. Good advice.

You’re welcome.


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