The voice of M'Hoq Toq is indicated like this

Nerida's voice is indicated like this


Hello, welcome.

Thank you.

It’s been a while. We’re in a different place again. Noisy.

It is a bit. Machines, always machines around in this period. 

[Sounds of nearby airport]

It’s been a bit more complicated coming in here now. There’s some lost soul around.


Not a match, but still trying.

We don’t want that one.

No space for that one.

That’s right. We’re happy with the team we have.

I’m glad to hear that.

One of friends did send them away before. They’re still hanging around — they need to say some things but this is not the right place.

It was never supposed to be here anyway. Traveling through — got stuck. Doesn’t know how to get to where he should go. Was suddenly taken out of this lifetime.

Just wanting to travel through from here to there. Didn’t get to there.

A lost soul followed Nerida home from work. Pic by  Jesse Bowser .

A lost soul followed Nerida home from work. Pic by Jesse Bowser.

You brought him from the place you go during the daytime. Following you, looking at that light. Maybe you could assist us a bit — telling him to go away. Doesn’t belong here, not a match. He doesn’t look for a match, but desperately trying to find out what happened.

I’ve come across those lost ones before. Sometimes I can ‘see’ someone who can help them. Sometimes I can ‘see’ a light. I can take them by the hand and someone else will come and take them to the light. I used to do that.

Maybe you should try it one more time.


He used to be on a different side of this planet.

How did he end up here?

Traveling through. Left this planet — was supposed to leave the planet. Changed his mind a bit too late.

Traveler, stuck here, as you would call it.

Just take him back to the place from where he followed you.

Someone might be able to take him back to the area, send him back to the area, that he was supposed to leave from.

Was it someone from the other side of the world who passed on when he was in this area?


It happens a lot. 

I can sense it.

Yeah, they fall off the cliffs, they have car crashes —

It was more of a violent thing.

Oh, really?


He was murdered, was he?

No. Something you would call an ‘accident’.
Happened a bit further away from here; was brought here but passed on the way.
Now this spirit is confused.


What have you been doing lately? We didn’t talk for a while.

It’s true. I’ve missed you. I’ve missed all of you.

We are always around. No reason to miss us.

We think of you when we see the eagles.

They are a good choice.

Mhmm. And they do welcome us. Wherever we go, we see them.

Of course we do. You are going to important places.

We do. Do you see this place?

I do see. I do see, in different ways.

I can see through different vibrations, energy.

The vibration gives us the strength of an object. The energy gives us colour, purpose, intention.

Every thing has got a consciousness and power, depth.


I’m enjoying my new workplace.


There’s lots of young ones coming to see me.

They might learn one or the other thing if they are open to it. They might be a bit too distracted by their daily tasks — filling the loneliness.

For young ones, this is a very lonely place. If they’re not open yet to the learning journey, it is a lonely place.

And yet still lonely. Photo by  Chetan Menaria

And yet still lonely. Photo by Chetan Menaria

They rarely are open to learning at this age. They’re looking for company and way to support the choices that they’ve made for their near future.

Some will find out that it doesn’t work that way.

Some are chasing this idea for quite a bit longer. They will go off to different places, but not change their minds about what to do. They still chase the same idea.

So they have a geographical change, but the mind is still the same. Some of them will get a push in a different direction that can start their real journey, because this is a very spiritual place, after all. It’s very strong in supporting the journeys they’re supposed to be on.

It doesn’t work if they’re chasing an idea.

A fantasy, so to speak?

I think you might call it that.

Like making lots of money and living a life of idleness and indulgence?

And yet, still lonely.

The more sensitive spirits will have a different idea after a while and they use this place to start their real journey.

For some of them, it is too early to come here. Somehow they have this idea that this might be the place to start their journey. But because it is too early, they can’t feel the energy here to grow their own energy. They can’t learn what they need to learn. It is here, but they’re looking right through it at this other idea that they have.

So, because they came here at a time that was too early for them, there will be a detour, as you call it.

Because they came too early, it actually puts them off their path?

They have this inner feeling that they should come to this place. They are drawn to it, but they don’t understand why. They have different ideas of why.

Some of them will come back at a later stage in this lifetime, because they will have this other idea: ‘There was something there that I didn’t realise back then.’

I’d love you to tell me more about this place.

Very old place. Not this shelter you’re staying in.

No, I understand.


It has always been a stop on people’s journey. It was a place of education: learning to grow the energy of the individual — and the energy of the place as well.

People have been drawn to this place, but it was a — we’re using your understanding of time — a temporary thing. A place for the purpose of energy exchange, for learning.

No one ever stayed here a whole lifetime, not even half of a lifetime. It was a place for gatherings, to educate. They came from all directions of this land, exchanging knowledge to grow the whole energy of the individuals and the place.

Uluru -- a place to visit for learning and energy exchange. Pic by  Thomas Schoch

Uluru -- a place to visit for learning and energy exchange. Pic by Thomas Schoch

So it was an exchange of energy, through learning, between these groups of individuals and the place, the environment as well. Animals took part in it, too.

The environment now can get quite poisonous, toxic, in times of hot climate.

There used to be forests here — dense forests, lakes. It did rain quite a lot. And even though it was a very fertile place, where things were around in abundance, people never stayed here for a whole lifetime or even half a lifetime. It was to create energy through learning, through growing their knowledge about all aspects of life that they came here. But people didn’t stay.

They stayed maybe for periods of between — hmmm — five or six moons (the cycles).

Which is not as long as you think it is, because there used to be one and one and another one [using the hands as if to indicate points on the horizon].

Three moons?


Hmmm. I’d heard we had two.

There was another one: always close to the one that imploded.

So, talking about five to six moons means different ones showing up.

It might be, in your time, from one full moon to the next and maybe half way to another. This is about the intensity of the place that people could handle.

Was there more than one moon? Pic by  Bill Williams

Was there more than one moon? Pic by Bill Williams

It made people stronger, in their knowledge and energy. If they stayed too long, the place took the energy back.

They were supposed to come here to grow it and take it with them to a different place, to other groups, to make them join in the growth of energy. So it could be taken to other places: knowledge. Growing the knowledge means expanding the energy. That was the purpose of people coming here.

There have been times when other people came here. They realised there was something special about this place. So they tried to take parts of this place somewhere else.

They thought: you dig out stones from here, or shiny things, and take them somewhere else, so this other place can be as powerful as this place. But if you take something out and you don’t replace it, you’re messing around with the balance. It didn’t work.

So all the plants and the trees started to disappear.

If the plants disappear, there is less rain coming down.

It turned the place, over years of course, (I use this term because you use it). I’m talking about very, very many years. We are not good at numbers, but a very long time — we don’t like to use that word.

It changed into a very arid, hostile place where there is still the capacity to grow energy and gain knowledge, but it’s nothing compared to what it has been before.

The energy got — you would call it — altered. It is good that it was a very strong place. It is not very strong anymore. Still strong. But the energy itself, the vibration of the place…the energy went down, so the vibration of the place changed.

Is that why it’s strong and good at some times of the year and not so good at other times of the year now?

I think this time now, this period [the autumn and winter] seems to be the better period. I am glad you don’t stay so close [to the Rock], this time. There would be more damage than good if you stayed so close again.

If we make a home here for a few years, it’d be wise to go away from here every month or two, to go somewhere else and not stay here the whole time?

It is what you’d call a transient place.

We never stayed at one place through a whole climate section.

A whole season?

We moved with the seasons to stay at the strongest places for that specific season. This is what was done here, as well.

But this specific place was not about following the seasons or moving with the seasons.

It was a place of learning: exchange knowledge, make it grow, raise energy — then go away. And then, following the seasons in other places and occasionally come back.

Taking energy, as we see energy, from one place to another place, doesn’t mean physically taking things from here to there.

It means going to a place, learning, growing the energy. Then go somewhere else, learn and teach — grow the energy somewhere else.

This is how you take energy from one place to another one.

Taking energy or things out of the ground is a destructive act. This destructive thing changes the energy. It puts it in an imbalance.

Adding some thing, even if it’s a good thing, from here to over there, doesn’t make it a good thing over there as well. This is not how it works.

You could as well, translate the concept to taking an idea from here to another place, adapting it and making it work there. This is the meaning of learning and growing energy. Taking it from here to there as new gained knowledge or a new idea. Take it over there, adapt it, learn more from it and grow the energy.

You wouldn’t want the same energy, even if it’s a good and strong one, at every place.

You need the diversity, otherwise there are aspects that get neglected.

Too much of some thing, even if it was something good in the first place, if you get too much of it — like, even food — it turns into something that’s not healthy for you, like poisonous.

You have too much water? You’ll kill yourself. It’s that easy. It’s about the mixture, the diversity. Some ideas have failed in history because people thought, ‘This is a good thing. We’ll try to make everything like that.’

Doesn’t work.

For example, if people create a religion — it is a good way to distract some people, to keep them under control.

You take this created religion to a different place. These people had different knowledge, different ideas, different feelings in the first place, so it won’t work.

And then they start fighting.

It’s diversity — you would call it a healthy mixture — that makes things last and flourish.

Say you have crops or fruit. You plant the same wonderful fruit, because you like it so much, year after year, after year. The soil is dead. You need to have an exchange.

You need, for example, to plant something else, to replace that power that was pulled from the soil into the fruit or into the crops to make them special. You need to replace—and you need to replace it with something that this area needs. You don’t put the same thing here because it worked over there. It would be wrong.

It’s like when people get sick. You have one medicine. It works for this person. Then this person has similar symptoms. You give the same medicine to this person, the same amount and it doesn’t work.


This is not what you would call ‘rocket science’. We have heard about rockets.

[Chuckles] And yet, the way that medicine is practised, in my profession nowadays, is that if you can’t give everyone with the same symptoms the same thing and have it work for everybody, then it’s not scientifically proven. So they consider that it doesn’t work. That’s the level of science that we have. 

That’s a poor understanding.

I mean, I knew back then, that this person has a different body, comes from a different area, has been eating different food, had different parents living in different shelters, climates.

Traveling through different climates, this person starts coughing.

You can’t give that person these kinds of herbs because this body can’t handle it. It won’t heal it. You need something else. You have to find it out.

What does this person need to get that kind of energy back, to heal that person?

Colourful herbs brewing tea. Pic by  Cole Hutson .

Colourful herbs brewing tea. Pic by Cole Hutson.

It’s about healing. It’s not about making every person the same. This is not right.

Everyone is different. Everyone has a different starting point. You know all these cell clusters and things they talk about? People have different energies. They have the ability to create different energies, as well.

So, if they’re out of balance, they develop what you call disease. You need to find out what has put this person out of balance and you have to re-balance it.

This will heal the person—unless the spirit has decided it is going to a different place: ‘I have learned enough here. I am going somewhere else.’ Then there is nothing than can balance it.

You can slow this one down… which can really make them angry, because this is not what they want.

They’ve made a decision here [in the heart] and here [in the head] that they need to go on.

It’s never the person themselves that will say: ‘You have to slow me down.’ It’s the others that this person is surrounded by.

Or the one that wants to prove, ‘I can treat this person with the same things that I’ve treated another person with and the person will stay.’ It won’t work. It’s the wrong thing to give in the first place.

If someone has made up their mind, made a decision, there is nothing that can stop them. You can slow them down, trying to hold them back.

But that will make them disappointed, desperate, angry — depending on what type they have been in the first place. It aggravates them, hard.

The dreamer will get desperate. The strong one will get angry. This is what I mean with the types.

I understand. Very interesting.

It is how, they tend to say, it brings out the worst in them.

Yes. To block somebody’s spiritual intentions -- 

Yes. It’s like multiplying a part of their ordinary behaviour — like the sensitive one, or the strong one — making that part so strong that it turns into something bad. Because, as everywhere, too much of something is no good at all. It’s just not beneficial.

So bringing the worst out means there’s a quality, that probably used to be a fine quality in that being, that gets multiplied. And turns into a quality that I wouldn’t call fine at all.

All because you’re holding them back. They’ve made a decision that they should go on and others try to hold them back. This is what you get if you interfere too much.

When Marie was learning to channel Aedgar, before you were talking to me, I felt you showed me a vision so that I could learn and not interfere with the process that was going on with Marie. 

You showed me a tiny baby that was kept, I think, in the carcass of a buffalo, to be kept warm. It was a very snowy, cold place.


I think the child’s mother had passed.


And you had to find shelter for it.

We had to find shelter because that little spirit decided to stay. So we had to support it.

But we had to find a different mother to keep it warm, to feed it, to give knowledge to that one.

I mean you can’t put it too close to the fire. So that animal provides an evenly distributed temperature, that lasts for quite a while without overheating that little body.

And it’s moist.

It protects the skin. It gives it the warmth and the feeling of the place it just came from. It’s a comfort.

After we found the mother we would eat the animal that rescued the baby.

We always kept, if something like this happened — and it did happen quite a bit — part of that animal to be given to the child.

So they had on them some woven grass or leather from that animal. Sometimes it was a tooth; sometimes part of the ear or tiny parts of the hoof, or some bushy hair from the tail or the fur -- that the child would carry around forever.

They’d wear it around their neck?

They would wear it around their neck or around their waist or on the foot. Or even around their head. Or hang it over the ear. [He gestures gently, indicating each spot that the child would wear the memento]

It was in memory of the one that saved them and to show respect for the new generations of this animal.

It is a bit like: you’ve got your totem?


You don’t eat it.

That’s right.

This child was saved by — it was a deer, by the way, the one I told you about — so it was saved by a deer.

If you are very desperate and there is nothing else around, you can ask the deers again to save you and to sacrifice their body. But, if there were buffalos or other animals around to hunt you would never go for the deer.

Not as a child, but even when the child grew up and turned into a hunter, for example, or into a beautiful woman — she wasn’t supposed to eat that animal or its new generations.

They would ask for permission, so to say, if there was nothing else around. They were asking the deer to sacrifice another one of theirs to save this group of people that this grown-up, now grown-up baby, was surrounded by — to save them.

I understand.

Good. Many wouldn’t.

Is there anything else?

Oh, there’s always so much more we could talk about. You’ve got so much wisdom and so many good stories. 

Thank you.

We might leave you now. It seems to be a cold place.

Today it is, yes. 

Good talking you at this place. Talk to you again another time. Thank you.

And you.